The Archons of Palm Tree Garden Exposed, Part 2 >:)

http://www.palmtreegarden.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1598

Rheginus: "Whether you consider the Old Testament God to be some "shadow" of the real God or whatever- Gnosticism, in it's essence, is all about opposition to Yahweh, Afterall, if it weren't, then Manichaeism would be called Gnostic in these forums, but it isn't. People who don't like that, who don't like the Old testament God having garbage thrown on top of them, well, what kind of Gnostic are you? What are you saying? What kind of God is God then? What kind of Gnostic are you? What are you willing to concede?"

Space debris: "No, it isn't. Really, it isn't. That's the most extreme oversimplification of Gnosticism I've seen in a long time. All you're doing is playing into the stereotype of "Gnostics" as childish rebels, and doing it in a way that leads to some rather ugly, bigoted views.Come on, man, stop posting stuff you know won't fly here. I personally don't want you to get banned again, because I think you do have some interesting ideas, but the way you're acting you will be banned again."

Rheginus: "but why would a person be banned on a Gnostic forum for opposition tp Yaldabaoth??!"

Bro Puma (PTG Site Admin) : "Rheginus, this is your final warning. We've been more than gracious with you. One more post or comment designed specifically to raise hackles and you will be banned from the forum. This has nothing to do with your "opposition" to Yaldabaoth; this is because you have consistently failed to play nice with others, and have been 'trolling' in the forum by posting numerous topics that are obviously sensitive in nature. Please desist now.I'm closing this thread."

space debris: "It's the way you're doing it, Rheginus. Ridiculing mainstream religious people. Flaming "Yahweh" in a manner that would reduce Gnosticism to a petty anti-semitism. And doing so repeatedly, even after you've been warned to stop multiple times.Here's a more direct answer to your original question, though: not all Gnostics "hated" the demiurge! Valentinians considered him a flawed but basically good figure. Platonizing Sethians didn't consider the demiurge a significant enough issue to even mention it... I know for a lot of people, including me, "bashing god" can add some appeal to Gnosticism when they first come into contact with its ideas. But the question is, are you willing to dig deeper, to move beyond a simplistic, black-and-white view, especially when people who have been at this longer are telling you that you're missing the point? If not, why do you come to this forum?"

sparkwidget: "This is unmedicated polemical nonsense. I've talked to many Jews and Christians who revere and worship the God represented in the Old Testament, but theirs is not as simplistic a picture as yours, nor are they literalist as you are. You commit a grave mistake in assuming that all mainstream religionists are tiny-brained literalists who approve of everything they read in every page of the bible. "Gnosticism is all about opposition to the Old Testament God" is a gross oversimplification and shown to be patently false by many Gnostics who either fail to mention old Yaldy at all or have more positive opinions towards him. Besides, I hardly think that the Demiurge represents a literal God who is an unspiritual alternative to the "True" God. He instead likely represents a mode of worship that is harmful, the literalist mode. Like Marcion, your ridiculous literalism and insistence that Yaldy-Baldy is something tangible like a tuna sandwich puts you squarely in the category of the literalist mode. You are essentially opposing your own view like a dog chasing its tail.I think you ought to take Space Debris' eloquent advice to heart."

THREAD CLOSED